are skeptics party poopers?

topic posted Thu, May 1, 2008 - 12:13 PM by  350ppm
whenever I am skeptical of someone elses claim, i sense that I am being seen as a party pooper..perhaps even seen as being negative..for not sharing their enthusiams of a certain claim..

..a certain vibe starts building about being a skeptic..methinks..

Do any of you get what I am getting at?

Do you think skeptics have a bad wrap as party poopers?
posted by:
350ppm
SF Bay Area
  • Re: are skeptics party poopers?

    Thu, May 1, 2008 - 1:20 PM
    Look at this tribe photo!
    how would you interpret that gesture? how would you react to such gesture?
    would you wear that face to a cocktail party?

    You see what I am getting at?

    • Re: are skeptics party poopers?

      Thu, May 1, 2008 - 1:43 PM
      Besides, a room full of deluded people is no fun to me.

      And the more that I think about it, why would you look at a "book photo" and try to extrapolate from that anything about what a person would be like in a social interaction. Maybe if you write a book, you should be pictured on the back holding a martini?
      • Re: are skeptics party poopers?

        Thu, May 1, 2008 - 1:49 PM
        Well I don't drink alcohol, nor have I been to any cocktail parties.. that is not the point..

        Mickey,

        Would you be willing to interpret the gesture of the photo? is that a kind of gesture that you would like to see when talking with someone?
        • Re: are skeptics party poopers?

          Thu, May 1, 2008 - 1:54 PM
          Well, substitute your party-item of choice for "martini" and I'd still be asking the same question. :-)

          If it's a "gesture," it's one that says, "I am kind. I am gentle. And the contents of this book are not so bad, really."

          And yes, if I'm really in a fully engaged conversation with someone, I would hope to see that someone looking right into my eyes with some intent, even if they're propping their head up on their arm.
          • Re: are skeptics party poopers?

            Thu, May 1, 2008 - 2:14 PM
            <<If it's a "gesture,">>

            Why aren't you sure that it is a gesture?

            To me, that gesture says "you are full of shit" more than it says "I am feeling gengle and kind."

            I'm skeptical to your claim that it says "I am kind. I am gentle." :)

            btw, If I had to choose a gesture when having a conversation with someone I'd prefer the gesture that I see to be in your avatar than the one being discussed... it has less of what I consider hubris to it.
            • Re: are skeptics party poopers?

              Thu, May 1, 2008 - 2:24 PM
              We're both applying our own psychological projections to the image at hand. And it's just an image.

              If I'm in a room of 20 people, all of whom are astrologers, and I say, "Astrology is bunk." I may be a rabble rouser, but I am not a party pooper.

              If you and I are ever at a cookout, and I put down my weenie and rest my head on my hand, you can be sure I'm still listening to you.
            • Re: are skeptics party poopers?

              Sat, May 3, 2008 - 5:52 AM
              !Alex! - "To me, that gesture says "you are full of shit" more than it says "I am feeling gengle and kind."

              Well since this is your subjective reading, it really says more about you than who you're attributing a certain attitude or quality to. I'd suggest that if you're busy judging books (and people) by their cover not their contents, not only are you missing out on a whole, lot but you're also mistaking your subjective beliefs which you've projected onto an object (a photo in this case) for being somehow an objective fact or universal.

              Personally I'm okay with people believing in things I don't and I love make believe, mythology and creative storytelling. It's when someone tries to assert that their subjective fictions are reality or promote pseudoscience to try to validate their ideas, and consequently endanger others, when it becomes a situation where someone has stepped over the line from personal belief to insisting that their fantasy is reality and trumps fact, that it becomes an issue for me. Personally I really enjoy people who are way out there and getting to know their interior world, just because someone's not firmly grounded in reality doesn't mean they're somehow invalid as an individual or not of interest to me or a potential friend. Of course, it often depends whether someone's put their fantasy life in service of art and they understand they're creating mythological "realities" or if they've mistaken their creativity/imagination/fantasies for reality and channeled it into being a religious fanatic.
              • Re: are skeptics party poopers?

                Sat, May 3, 2008 - 6:36 AM
                "Personally I'm okay with people believing in things I don't and I love make believe, mythology and creative storytelling. It's when someone tries to assert that their subjective fictions are reality or promote pseudoscience to try to validate their ideas, and consequently endanger others, when it becomes a situation where someone has stepped over the line from personal belief to insisting that their fantasy is reality and trumps fact, that it becomes an issue for me."


                *Standing ovation from the Mandrill*
              • Re: are skeptics party poopers?

                Sat, May 3, 2008 - 8:02 AM
                yep, gesture interpretation is a subjective affair...

                Fifi, what does that gesture tell you? how do you interpret it?
                • Re: are skeptics party poopers?

                  Sat, May 3, 2008 - 8:55 AM
                  Well, first of all he's not making a gesture so you're kinda talking out your ass here - which can be an effective party trick in some circles but it would seem to tie together partying and pooping. He's posed in a static position, so speaking about gesture is both misleading and basically incorrect. It looks like a listening posture to me, he's leaning in to listen. As for the "feeling" I get from the photo, I also read a sort of interested, gentle benevolence in the old coot's face - mainly because the eyes are crinkled around the edges, a facial expression that universally, across all cultures, indicates a genuine smile.

                  Even using some objective markers, it's still a subjective interpretation of an image that may not reflect the reality of the actual person in the photograph.

                  I'm sure some people, particularly people who are talking out their ass and spewing shit, consider skeptics as party poopers. Skeptics can certainly gets in the way if you're trying to dazzle people with bullshit but the people who are a REAL drag at parties are those hippy, new age guys who try to pretend they're all spiritual when they're just trying to get in your pants and then get all huffy if you don't succumb to their "magic" or who rant against pharmaceutical drugs but then down silly doses of crappy street E and run around gurning in people's faces.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: are skeptics party poopers?

                    Sat, May 3, 2008 - 9:36 AM
                    Well Mickey hears "kind and gentle"
                    Fifi hears "gentle benevolence"

                    I still see a hubris gesture.
                    As for my "your are full of shit" and your "talking out your ass", I am thinking this conversation is smelling a bit septic.

                    You seem to advice to not confuse the subjective with the absolute, yet went along and described me as "mistaking a belief for a fact" where I clearly have not made such claim. I suspect you are misinterpreting what you read.

                    As for who are the REAL drag.. I think you are mistaking the relative for the absolute...

                    (btw, mind your personal insults.. it's too passe)
                    • Re: are skeptics party poopers?

                      Sat, May 3, 2008 - 10:03 AM
                      !Alex! - Perhaps it's your own hubris that's being confronted/projected? Seriously, I was just playing with "poo". I don't take shit that seriously (especially of this nature), though feel free to polish your own turds and present them as gold if you feel that is worthwhile and enjoyable. After all, it was you who came into the tribe talking about pooping - don't try to pretend your shit doesn't stink and that you weren't trying to stir shit up! *rotflmao*
                      • Re: are skeptics party poopers?

                        Sat, May 3, 2008 - 10:10 AM
                        Ah, right, you're Sunshine's accomplice... faux/faith-based skeptic all the way (by that I mean a new ager who pretends they're a skeptic because they don't have faith in science...and doesn't understand just how retarded that position inherently is and how it disqualifies them from actually being a skeptic in the larger sense).
                        • Re: are skeptics party poopers?

                          Sat, May 3, 2008 - 10:26 AM
                          "(by that I mean a new ager who pretends they're a skeptic because they don't have faith in science...and doesn't understand just how retarded that position inherently is and how it disqualifies them from actually being a skeptic in the larger sense)."

                          You just dismissed 80% of tribe !!!
                          • Re: are skeptics party poopers?

                            Sat, May 3, 2008 - 10:54 AM
                            <<you just dismissed 80% of tribe !!!>>

                            I think she dismissed herself from reason into emotional ranting.
                            • Re: are skeptics party poopers?

                              Sat, May 3, 2008 - 11:06 AM
                              !Alex! - "I think she dismissed herself from reason into emotional ranting."

                              *lol* You're so proving me right. Just like in EH you're doing exactly what you're decrying others for doing. My skepticism about your intentions here once I recognized you was obviously well founded.
                              • Re: are skeptics party poopers?

                                Sat, May 3, 2008 - 11:12 AM
                                <<My skepticism about your intentions >>

                                there is no possible way for you to know my intentions.. you just proved yourself a skepic of your self.
                                • Re: are skeptics party poopers?

                                  Sat, May 3, 2008 - 11:30 AM
                                  !Alex! - Of course I can't "know your intentions". I can only surmise what they are from your actions. It's perfectly valid to say that I am skeptical that you have good intentions. Whatever. Continue with your pretense of skepticism while you try to replace the moderator. The other people who participate in this tribe can check you out and make up their own minds.

                                  As I recall, you also tried to unseat the moderator of EH while you were trying to make the tribe conform to your personal definition of honesty. This is looking a lot like a repeat. You guys must feel really threatened by science and skepticism - I guess it gets in the way of promoting pseudoscience and selling quack remedies that pretend to be based in science not faith.
                          • Re: are skeptics party poopers?

                            Sat, May 3, 2008 - 11:35 AM
                            The Mandrill - Well, yes, tribe does tend to be full of woo (this tribe not so much historically in my experience). I don't really mind that tribe is the land of woo, sometimes it's very entertaining and lots of people into woo aren't crusading or trying to pretend it's science. Considering that there are only a few tribes dedicated to science and skepticism, it would be nice not to allow them to be overrun by woo warriors looking to spread the woo and find ways to make pseudoscience look more like science.
                            • Re: are skeptics party poopers?

                              Sat, May 3, 2008 - 12:10 PM
                              that wasn't a dig at you, but just a remark on te general make-up of tribe.

                              "sometimes it's very entertaining and lots of people into woo aren't crusading or trying to pretend it's science. "

                              I love weird people. They tend to keep life interesting

                              "Considering that there are only a few tribes dedicated to science and skepticism, it would be nice not to allow them to be overrun by woo warriors looking to spread the woo and find ways to make pseudoscience look more like science."

                              I agree
                              • Re: are skeptics party poopers?

                                Sat, May 3, 2008 - 12:17 PM
                                The Mandrill - All cool, I didn't take it as a dig at me. Though it seems !Alex! was hoping it was one *lol* Nothing wrong with weird, and if people want to base their beliefs upon faith that's there business. I start to find it problematic when they try to base public policy or going to war on those beliefs, or when they try to pretend it's not faith but fact.
                        • Re: are skeptics party poopers?

                          Sat, May 3, 2008 - 10:51 AM
                          Fifi, <<Ah, right, you're Sunshine's accomplice... faux/faith-based skeptic all the way (by that I mean a new ager who pretends they're a skeptic because they don't have faith in science...and doesn't understand just how retarded that position inherently is and how it disqualifies them from actually being a skeptic in the larger sense). >>

                          Congradulations on your mind reading abilites? cerainly not my mind.. not because I don't have faith in science..which I don't...because I don't believe in faith...perhaps you do.. but that is your business.. just don't project it on me.
                      • Re: are skeptics party poopers?

                        Sat, May 3, 2008 - 10:45 AM
                        I understand you getting defensive.. but you don't need to be..

                        Just mind your personal attacks..
                        • Re: are skeptics party poopers?

                          Sat, May 3, 2008 - 10:59 AM
                          !Alex! - Nah, not defensive. I've just realized who you are and am clear from past experience that you're not actually a skeptic but a believer looking to stir up shit. Like your friend Sunshine who likes to get all abusive in science tribes because whatever new age pseudoscience she's peddling this week is shot down for being the pseudoscience it is. I see you're now trying to position yourself as a victim (as you did in EH) of personal attack when you've joined the tribe explicitly to stir up shit...I am skeptical that your intentions are friendly or that you're even genuinely interested in skepticism or science.
                          • Re: are skeptics party poopers?

                            Sat, May 3, 2008 - 11:37 AM
                            <<I am skeptical that your intentions are friendly or that you're even genuinely interested in skepticism or science. >>

                            that makes me smile upon thinking on my university degree that will squarely prove you wrong on my genuine interest in skepticism or science..
                            I have no interest in proving you anything.. if you and your friends got your shit stirred by my skepticm on your group-think of "compassionate safe environment to be openly honest" while clearly being sarcastic, insulting,..that's your business.

                            I suggest you don't confuse my friend with me.. two different people, you see?
                            • Re: are skeptics party poopers?

                              Sat, May 3, 2008 - 11:49 AM
                              !Alex! - Considering you joined tribe three days before you joined EH and started immediately to defend Sunshine who entered EH being hostile and, while being dishonest yourself, started telling everyone off for not being honest or communicating in the way you prefer, I'd say that your relationship with Sunshine is relevant. Clearly you've got her back and she promotes pseudoscience and specific commercial sellers of woo - that's relevant in terms of how skeptical you are. I'm not confusing you with your friend, I'm just saying that your relationship with Sunshine makes your claims to be a skeptic pretty weak.