www.youtube.com/watch
All I can think is that they got the most annoying people so that we actually want THEIR heads to pop.
All I can think is that they got the most annoying people so that we actually want THEIR heads to pop.
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Re: Debunk please
Tue, June 24, 2008 - 8:34 AMCheck these links:
blog.wired.com/underwire/...s-cant.html
www.snopes.com/science/cookegg.asp
I will try to examine the videos more thoroughly in the near future but off hand as a magician my guess would be a heating element of some kind beneath the popcorn.
If I notice something else I will post it.
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Re: Debunk please
Tue, June 24, 2008 - 6:29 PMThanks so much for the reply, this is one of my safety nets ( I spelled that "nest" first and it gave me pause...sure, that too.) of reason and critical thinking that I feel I can really count on when I'm at a loss to refute the exlamated claims being thrown at me.
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Re: Debunk please
Tue, June 24, 2008 - 9:00 AMOh, this one is easy! :)
www.cardosystems.com/pop/
That's the company that made the videos. They come right out and say that they're completely fictional. -
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Re: Debunk please
Tue, June 24, 2008 - 6:25 PMThank you. It was way too late and I was way too tired to immediately refute this obviously fake video, but it was killing me to let it go as well.
Especially because it was posted to a bunch of people at once on Facebook and it makes me crazy because you can't reply all on the funwall or whatever.
Wall of doom!
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Re: Debunk please
Wed, June 25, 2008 - 9:06 AMNo problem. :) I happened to have the info on hand because I had to do the same thing somewhere else.
Catchy meme is catchy. :P -
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Re: Debunk please
Fri, June 27, 2008 - 2:47 AMCatchy alright.
Especially facebook based memes because they give you the opportunity to uncheck all the people you want to forward it to, without any way to really reply to the person you sent it to, thereby often spreading the meme without retaliatory tactics that could threaten it's propagation!!
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Re: Debunk please
Wed, June 25, 2008 - 9:40 AMWhat interest me is to understand a little bit about he following: "it was killing me to let it go as well.. it makes me crazy because you can't reply all on the funwall or whatever. "
I would let the babies have their cool-aid, lest you becoming a party pooper to them. -
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Re: Debunk please
Wed, June 25, 2008 - 10:02 AMObviously we look at this differently. I think that giving new information to those that have reached erroneous conclusions based on their current information is an altruistic act, not a downer.
Honestly, if I was standing around driving nails with a socket wrench, and someone walked by who knew full well that I'd get better results with a hammer, but didn't tell me, I'd think they were kind of a dick. -
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Re: Debunk please
Wed, June 25, 2008 - 10:10 AMThat first paragraph should probably include the phrase "how they see it notwithstanding" in there somewhere, but anyway... -
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Re: Debunk please
Wed, June 25, 2008 - 12:11 PMI hear you MYRKABAH,
On the one hand, babies could use some growing up, and this can be as good as any opportunity to help them sharpen their wits some. On the other hand, babies just want to have fun..to the point of delusion, and they aren't going to get any sharper if they think it will poop their fun.
Now there are similarities in the optimist and the pessimist extremes:
the optimist may think the babies will easily outgrow this on their own, thusly do nothing to help sharpen their wits.
the pessimist may think the babies will never outgrow this, thusly not waste precious time on them.
either case.. they don't mobilize--this dynamic can be generalized into many more important aspects of life...(which is why I am elaborating my thoughts on this a bit).
so there are those in the middle, not too optimistic.. not too pessimistic.. and yes, I think there will be some who would be glad someone is helping them sharpen their wit--even perhaps at the expense of loosing that "aww" factor they so enjoyed, in favor of a new..more powerful "aww" of critical thinking.
..which is why i am interested in finding out the impetus behind the enthusiasm that I notice in Carciogeny -
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Re: Debunk please
Wed, June 25, 2008 - 12:49 PM"so there are those in the middle, not too optimistic.. not too pessimistic.. and yes, I think there will be some who would be glad someone is helping them sharpen their wit--even perhaps at the expense of loosing that "aww" factor they so enjoyed, in favor of a new..more powerful "aww" of critical thinking. "
I've been working with this recently, actually. It's helpful to point out things that are utterly fantastical about science and critically-derived knowledge, such as the scale of the universe, space travel as a reality, time dilation, etc. etc .etc. A lot of people take for granted that much of our understanding of the world (understanding which leads directly to this sense of awe) is significantly derived from critical debunking of our prior and dearly held beliefs. Heliocentrism had to go to make way for the humbling majesty of the cosmos. Anthrocentrism took a necessary blow to make way for the theories of evolution and relativity. Our understanding of basically everything necessarily took the place of cultural myths and legends that passed for explanations before we had actual ones.
So, as I was saying - I've fielded the accusation that I'm taking some magic out of the world by debunking dearly held beliefs, and I've been trying to get across the idea that critical thinking, skepticism, debunking and science are not mutually exclusive at all with a spiritual or awe-filled view of the universe. In practice, however, it's usually involved pimping Carl Sagan's writing as brazenly as I can, but I digress...
"..which is why i am interested in finding out the impetus behind the enthusiasm that I notice in Carciogeny "
Is a simple dislike for things that are wrong not good enough? ;) -
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Re: Debunk please
Wed, June 25, 2008 - 1:38 PMI've also been accused for taking some of the magic out of the world. I think I'm making more magic. Just because you understand something doesn't mean it's any less magical. -
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Re: Debunk please
Wed, June 25, 2008 - 2:04 PMI'm going to pimp some more Sagan here. :)
"It is sometimes said that scientists are unromantic, that their passion to figure out robs the world of beauty and mystery. But is it not stirring to understand how the world actually works — that white light is made of colors, that color is the way we perceive the wavelengths of light, that transparent air reflects light, that in so doing it discriminates among the waves, and that the sky is blue for the same reason that the sunset is red? It does no harm to the romance of the sunset to know a little bit about it."
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Re: Debunk please
Wed, June 25, 2008 - 6:29 PM<<Just because you understand something doesn't mean it's any less magical.
>>
..except that magic is about supernatural powers..and skepticism is about doubting them -
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Re: Debunk please
Wed, June 25, 2008 - 9:47 PM2. mysteriously enchanting: "a magical night."
dictionary.reference.com/browse/magical
Sunsets are mysteriously enchanting, no? -
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Re: Debunk please
Wed, June 25, 2008 - 11:33 PMOr the world in general, I should probably say. I thought that was directed at me.
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Re: Debunk please
Fri, June 27, 2008 - 2:42 AMWhen someone titles a post that is on funwall to a bunch of friend saying "IS THIS FOR REAL!!???" I know that even if I can immediately have the information to say
"No, this is not for real, re: this this and this" I still can only respond to the initial poster, a friend of mine, who was actually asking that and not just reply all--- therefore curtailing the endless sending of the incredulity based, yet not skeptically understood video-meme. There's so much more out that may be just as pointless but at least more entertaining than an obviously faked video.
I don't know about the babies part....
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Re: Debunk please
Fri, June 27, 2008 - 7:11 PM<<obviously faked video.>>
I think this video may not have been faked actually.. It can be easily reproduce with healing elements such as a hot plate underneath...so it would be "TOTALLY FOR REAL!!??"..
the main problem is on the quick interpretation that the cell phones caused it.. and I am not sure anyone is claiming this.. although perhaps implied by most..
Nevertheless.. I am still curious as to why this is irking to people.. since it's a given that most humans, past and present.. have not been critical thinkers? -
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Re: Debunk please
Fri, June 27, 2008 - 7:20 PM"Nevertheless.. I am still curious as to why this is irking to people.. since it's a given that most humans, past and present.. have not been critical thinkers?"
I may have an answer to this, actually: The sheer degree to which the video is obviously faked (with a heating element or whatever) makes it really despairingly clear just how bad the state of critical thinking is. -
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Re: Debunk please
Sat, June 28, 2008 - 1:59 PM<<obviously faked (with a heating element or whatever) >>
definition of fake:
--one that is not what it purports to be
--a worthless imitation passed off as genuine
I contend that this video could have been done without video editing or visual illusions ..and the like.. that is is purely simple mechanical configurations of thermal elements to make this occur.. so it would be 100% genuine and real... so ther is nothing "fake" about it.
The only deception that may happen is on the assumptions about what it represents.. how a viewer may interpret such evidence..
This video could have been titled: "popcorn with orange juice" and would this mean that people are claiming that the orange juice caused the popping? No, so I think this whore scenario is simply jumping the gun about uncommunicated assumptions, inferences, and innuendos.. so nothing really needs debunking because no proper claim is made, whatsoever.
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Re: Debunk please
Fri, June 27, 2008 - 11:48 PMOK, split hairs.
the assumption with which its being passed around is not whether they're using a disguised hot plate or if it's CGI, but whether the cell phones are the cause of the popping corn.
skipping over argument that the given length of time a human behavior is around should dictate the level of irk one has toward it---
the calculation of how many things I may come across like this and how they affect me or don't has not been factored in...If one sticks around this tribe then all the irksome things will seem to be a prevailing sentiment because we're not going to come to this tribe to discuss how much the lack of critical thinking *doesn't* affect us. Then there wouldn't really be posts.
How many things have I NOT posted that HAVEN'T gotten to me the way that this particular video did?
The bottom line was to arrest propagation of this video meme as much as one person could.
The video itself is insipid and annoying and came with a question "Is this for real?" As in"if this is true, that cellphones can make popcorn pop, then it follows that something similar must be happening when we put them against our heads. Is that possible?" It's manufacturing hysteria about a commonplace object. And less fabricated hysteria is a good thing, since there's enough naturally occurring concerns to go around. -
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Re: Debunk please
Sat, June 28, 2008 - 12:03 AM"It's manufacturing hysteria about a commonplace object. And less fabricated hysteria is a good thing, since there's enough naturally occurring concerns to go around."
YES.
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Re: Debunk please
Sat, June 28, 2008 - 2:31 PMWell I am glad, Carcinogenny, that you find relevancy in discussing the "irking" in this tribe.
Your emotional response to this video, or the associated riff raff, is totally valid.. emotions are not a domain or arguments..if you find the video insipid and annoying..well that is how you respond it it emotionally..end of story.
But It is important to understand our emotional responses in order to know the intentionality of skepticism in the situation.
when you suggested that WE want THEIR heads to pop.. lol.. well that was funny.. but it was also rather violent (call me overly sensitive.. but i have thing against the use of violence even in minute degree.) and I wonder if you wanted to hit people with a club of skepticism to ruin their enthusiams for enjoying this video--video is not fear mongering, to me, it seem more like fun viral video..nothing to get serious about.
Now your suggestion is an interesting one:"if this is true, that cellphones can make popcorn pop, then it follows that something similar must be happening when we put them against our heads. Is that possible?"
because this is actually true commonplace EMI radianting objects such as cell phone carries an increase risk of certain cancers.. I post this on cognitive science tribe about this issue:
cogsci.tribe.net/thread/eb...8aa2518be7
(doctors find increase incidence of brain tumors on the side where people place their cell phones..some even right close to the ears)
I personally don't use cellphone because of this health risk.
So, to the extent that people infer heath risk of cellphone from silly videos such as this.. well I am actualy very impressed of their critical thinking. -
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Re: Debunk please
Sat, June 28, 2008 - 4:00 PMThere is a large difference between heads exploding and cancer. heat builds up inside the popcorn, and the moisture with becomes so pressurized it then explodes into a wonderful snack food. I have read differing viewpoints on the studies themselves and either the lack of peer review or the way the studies were done...I don't have that at hand at the moment, but I can do some research to look up the critiques of those studies. There may also be more recent, better studies that I'm not familiar with. But there has always been hysteria around cellphone teckmology (I'm sorry, it's from Da Ali G show, I can't spell it any other way now!! o_0)
There may also have been some studies done that say that headsets---getting the energy emitting apparatus away from your head---is a good solution to the problem. But I'd probably look at just a simple population known for their cell phone use and out of that how many have gotten brain tumors. And at what age.
That study says that when someone has gotten a brain tumor it seems to correlate to which side of the head they would put their phone. I'm not sure if this is because they watched people who may or may not get brain tumors and counted how many hours they held their phone against one particular side of the head, or if they just asked them after which side they normally held their phones. Human memory is at best fallible, at worst, completely mutable in any given circumstance.
This is just what I'm remembering from an older discussion of a cell phone/brain tumor study, so if this isn't the same one, if it's more recent, then I'd have to collate that data and recalibrate. But I think it's the same one.
Anyway, though I'm not stating that cellphones are completely innocuous physically, I am stating that they don't make popcorn.
The people whose heads I wanted to pop were the characters in the video. Maybe the characters were supposed to portray the smug college graduated city dweller, remarking on how cool each others' phones were in order to give it the feeling that THESE people are smarty pants in smart looking pants and even THEY are baffled!
It's an advertisement and that's the style they went with. Since it was obviously staged, I think my feelings toward their characters don't count. They aren't real people. Yes the people playing them were real, and I wouldn't want anyone to be harmed in reality, even the promoter of this video because it's a lame little viral ad.
The people that come the closest to at least public shaming in my mind and even jail time in terms of debunking etc are faith healers and other psychic types who feed off the grief and pain and worry of others for their own benefit.. But still, it's not like i want them tarred and feathered. ( That is a TERRIBLE TERRIBLE ACT btw, cartoons had led me to believe otherwise for years....)
Skepticism and critical thinking doesn't exist apart from the rest of the human body, and I think that's always something to be accounted for when judging your baseline in reaction to something. I did, when I said ARGH I want this to be debunked ASAP but I'm tired and loopy and I need help from other, cooler heads for that right now because all I can think of is how annoying that video is(Not only the characters but the assumed claim being made. And maybe the amount of exclamation points that were added to "IS THIS FOR REAL???!!!"). So I came here, where cooler minds prevailed and a soothing balm of rational thinking was able to provide me the response I knew I really wanted to give to my friend who sent it.
I didn't have everyone go and attack the makers video, or anything like that...I just don't have that much energy. Anyway it's already out in the memetosphere, so that would be pointless.
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Re: Debunk please
Sat, June 28, 2008 - 5:56 PMI think a healthy skeptism over technology's effect on health is never a wasted endevour. There are plenty of examples out there about humans running blindly with scientific achievements to the effect of shooting ourselves in the foot.
In regards to cell phone, I make use of the precautionary principle, since evidence of the long term health effects is lagging the use of the technology. I understand that the US is introducing hundreads of new chemicals and only keeping track of a handful and fewer than these have been banned after long and hard fought battles in the political arena.
I don't think Industry and Goverment are looking after our long term health risks, thusly we are sort of flying blind about exposure to technology. Perhaps is this related anxiety and uncertainty that surfaces when videos such as these surface..perhaps it is a akward way of raising a debate about this soft of thing.
I think someone who is apt to believe that cellphone makes popcorn, may not be well poised to accept reason to alleviate their concerns.. perhaps a better strategy is superstition. ok.. not that.. perhaps religion (no..not all religion is superstition)? or maybe humor.. Its just taht I think reason is perhaps too unpalatable to such folks...or maybe I have just given up on the babies. ..
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Re: Debunk please
Wed, June 25, 2008 - 7:53 PMHere's a link to somebody that did it by taking apart a microwave to place the "heating element" underneath the table. Interesting stuff.
www.dvorak.org/blog/ -
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Re: Debunk please
Wed, June 25, 2008 - 9:46 PM
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